Testing Center reminds students of Dress and Grooming Standards

*UPDATE: Official position of BYU-Idaho on skinny jeans

On November 8th the Testing Center began a campaign to remind students of the CES Dress and Grooming Standards. The campaign has gained the attention and criticism of many students.

Some students have encountered resistance from Testing Center officials when attempting to enter the facility because of excessively tight pants.

Self-described as “curvy,” Rachel Vermillion, a senior studying psychology, took a test in the afternoon of the day that the new rule was implemented.

Afterwards she attended another class, studied for her second test of the day and attended a leadership meeting with her bishop as a member of her ward’s Relief Society presidency. From there she went directly to the Testing Center.

At 8:30 p.m., 30 minutes before the Testing Center was scheduled to close, Vermillion entered the facility prepared to take her test and was told by an employee there that she would not be permitted to enter.

“I got in line and the guy said that I couldn’t take a test because my pants were too tight,” Vermillion said. “I thought he was joking at first.”

Vermillion wasn’t given a warning, despite the Testing Center’s history of issuing warnings to students for similar violations of the CES Dress and Grooming Standards.

“I thought it was going to be like, ‘Next time, wear a different pair of pants,'” Vermillion said. “I’d never gotten a warning. I pointed out to him girls around me who had gotten in who were wearing jeans much tighter than my pants, but he just said, ‘It’s at the discretion of the Testing Center employees.’ He got very angry and was very rude.”

“When I told him that I lived 20 minutes away from Rexburg and that if I went home to change and came back the Testing Center would be closed, he just said, ‘That’s not my problem.’”

Even when a fellow employee attempted to persuade him to allow Vermillion to take her test, he did not relent.

“Another girl who worked there told him that the pants I was wearing were looser than hers,” Vermillion said. “It was really frustrating because there were skinny girls who were wearing tight pants who were getting admitted, but I’m curvy so my regular-fitting pants were a little bit tighter on me and he wouldn’t let me in. It was offensive and humiliating.”

John Dexter, manager of the Testing Center, acknowledged that some staff members have been more zealous than others in enforcing the dress code.

“I do have a cole of staff who have inadvertently sent people away on their own,” Dexter said. “That isn’t something we enforce. That’s because of poor communication. We’ve struggled with this and figuring out how to do it without embarrassing people unduly.”

Last month a sign was posted at the Testing Center that read, “If your pants are tight enough to see the shape of your leg, your pants are too tight. The CES Dress and Grooming Standards state that: ‘Clothing is inappropriate when it is . . . formfitting.’ Skin tight clothing is NOT appropriate attire.”

Concluding this notice was a short paragraph that read, “If your clothing or attitude does not meet the commitments you have made to live the Honor Code, will you please go home and prayerfully visit with your Father in Heaven and recommit yourself to be a true disciple and abide by the Honor Code that defines your commitment to be a disciple.” The sign was replaced three days later.

“I decided after a cole weeks of prayerful consideration and some discussions here in our staff that something had to be done. I put out one sign; I tend to be a little bit rash, but we modified it so that it’s not too harsh,” Dexter said.

Today there stands a similar sign, but with the concluding paragraph reading, “If you don’t understand the Dress and Grooming standards, we invite you to go to the Lord ‘and ask in faith, nothing wavering’ for approval of the clothing you wear. The Spirit will tell you whether what you are wearing is appropriate or not.”

In response to students who feel that formfitting jeans are appropriate, Dexter said, “If a student prays and they think that the tight ‘formfitting’ clothing is accepted by the Lord, they have not asked, or have not asked the right question, or they have chosen an answer for their own gratification. I don’t believe the Lord would give approval to anyone to be disobedient to the CES Dress and Grooming Standards.”

The Testing Center has not made any policy changes. They are reminding students of the Dress and Grooming Standards against formfitting clothing.

“This has been a CES standard for as long as I’ve been here,” Dexter said. “All we’re doing is quoting the CES policy.”

The Testing Center has been criticized for not communicating the stricter enforcement of BYU-Idaho’s formfitting clothing policy.

“I don’t care if they require me to wear a burqa,” Vermillion said, “but they should really let you know beforehand. I had just come from a meeting with my bishop, but I couldn’t get into the Testing Center.”

Click here for the official position of BYU-Idaho on skinny jeans.

Click here for an alumnus’ take on BYU-Idaho’s enforcement of the dress code.


'Testing Center reminds students of Dress and Grooming Standards' have 66 comments

  1. December 7, 2011 @ 8:01 am Andy Bell

    I am sad to see that The Student Review did such a poor job reporting this story, but Gawker did a much better job. An author at Gawker saw the Student Review article and posted about it, but also reached out to school administrators for clarification and Kevin Miyasaki, a vice president, wrote: “We have not identified “skinny jeans” as a specific violation of the dress and grooming standard. We are aware of the incident and the Student Honor Office is working with the Testing Center to address the issue.”
    Great article Dan. Thanks for providing so much context about this issue.


  2. December 7, 2011 @ 8:59 am Jose Alvarez

    really? this is what its come down to? last time i checked we werent living the Law of Moses, but i guess the Pharisees are back!


  3. December 7, 2011 @ 1:45 pm Scott

    Those signs and statements were completely inappropriate use of scripture, and mockery, nearing blasphemy to use them as such. The testing center staff should be the ones who should be on their knees, humbling themselves for saying such statements. Those signs and statements do not adhear to a greater policy, Charity – the pure love of Christ. If these signs were posted anywhere in a church, they would be removed, so why would they be okay to be used in BYUI? Answer: they should not. Second, you should never tell people that they did not ask the right questions in their prayers. That is wrong to judge them as such.
    I hope something can be accomplished to fix the harm this has caused in the school.


  4. December 7, 2011 @ 3:11 pm Kyle

    Oh freak. This is a serious problem. I saw this article from a friend’s facebook post. He’s not a member. This is not good publicity.


  5. December 7, 2011 @ 4:19 pm Austin Clift

    This is absolutely ridiculous. I am so sick of the self righteousness that exists on campus. Dexter how can you say whether or not someone has received an answer from the lord or not? Are you receiving revelation for them? It looks like skinny jeans are going to keep all of us out of the temple and the celestial kingdom.


  6. December 7, 2011 @ 4:43 pm Frank Rinkers

    Last time I checked Jesus walked around in sandals and wore a beard….guess if he ever did come again and wanted to check out the Testing Center he would not be admitted


  7. December 7, 2011 @ 4:43 pm Tahadden

    Have fun looking like idiots
    “A statement in the dress code forbidding women from wearing “levis” met with opposition in 1978 from the Levi Strauss Company. Administrators consequently substituted the word “jeans” for “levis.” Three months later in November 1978, a coed who was refused entrance to the BYU testing center because she was “wearing pants of denim material” left the center, removed her pants, buttoned up her overcoat, and was admitted, pantless, without question. In a letter to the editor of the Universe, she added, “There is something strangely perverse and incongruous about a dress code which demands that a girl dressed in nice denim pants [be] rejected from a campus facility, while a girl in underpants and a coat is acceptable. Is it that vital that we expose the lower half of our legs?” (DU, 14 Nov. 1978). This event, which received national attention, may have contributed to BYU’s eventual capitulation on the jeans issue less than three years later.”


  8. December 7, 2011 @ 4:50 pm Mark Geist

    It is episodes like this that make people think Mormons are really weird. Is BYU-I now going to require that women dress like the FLDS ? The sexist jerk who caused this incident should be identified and held to the ridicule he deserves.


  9. December 7, 2011 @ 4:56 pm Joe Vasicek

    This is ridiculous. If I were a BYU-I student, I would protest this by organizing a group of friends to wear burqas to the testing center. That ought to get some embarrassing media attention.


  10. December 7, 2011 @ 5:28 pm Andy Bell

    An update to the story:
    From the BYU-Idaho Facebook page: “Wondering if skinny jeans are allowed on campus? They are. BYU-Idaho’s longstanding dress & grooming standards promote principles of modesty and restrict formfitting clothing, but skinny jeans are not singled out or prohibited. In addition, the Testing Center issue reported in Scroll has been corrected and is no longer in force.”
    The post is located at


  11. December 7, 2011 @ 5:31 pm Any Lewis

    Bro. Dexter should resign because this incident is making BYU-Idaho look really bad. Plus he is the sole responsible for this ridiculous policy.


  12. December 7, 2011 @ 5:32 pm Fairchild

    What about leggings and tunics? Those were very popular at BYU-Provo in the late 80’s and early 90’s and I don’t recall any uproar over them. This is just weird. A lot of the adult ladies in my ward wear skinny jeans.


  13. December 7, 2011 @ 6:00 pm Duane

    To the person who actually constructed the sign that said “If you have an argumentative attitude about the dress code, you are not being a disciple and you need to go home and pray to ask the Lord how to be a better disciple.”:

    Perhaps YOU need to get down on your knees and ask for help from the temptations that vex you. Pot, meet kettle; moat, meet beam.


  14. December 7, 2011 @ 6:04 pm Dad of BYU-I student

    I’m glad to hear the issue has been resolved, and I hope the young woman who was turned away from the testing center has received an apology.

    I am curious, though, if any male students were turned away. My son at BYU-I wears skinny jeans almost everywhere he goes, and it never crossed my mind that they might be inappropriate.

    How much you want to bet the Idaho Falls stores sell out of skinny jeans in the next few days?


  15. December 7, 2011 @ 6:16 pm Chase

    This is why I never went to a church school and I will never ask my children to go. We are told to live in the world and not of it. In no way does BYUI help you accomplish this. Oh and if your a guy and going to take a test you better pray and have faith that your facial hair will not grow faster today then it did yesterday so you can take your test at 5:00


  16. December 7, 2011 @ 6:19 pm BYU-P faculty

    What capricious, arbitrary, prideful, and ultimately sinister exercise of unrighteous dominion on the part of the BYU-I Testing Center. Not only did this create an inexcusably embarrassing situation for the student in question, it reflected very poorly on the Church. Simply idiotic.

    We spend millions of dollars putting out “I’m a Mormon” ads featuring devout but sometimes scruffy (Brandon Flowers), long-haired (the fashion designer), form-fitting wet-suit wearing (the surfer girl) Mormons, HOPING our potential investigators will stop thinking we’re freaks, and then one self-righteous, Pharisaical, pathetically power-hungry BYU-I bureaucrat sends us all right back to freakville!

    How sad. The gospel is so much bigger than these silly self-righteous triflings.


  17. December 7, 2011 @ 6:40 pm madison

    Seriously people? What ever happened to the spirit of the law? If we are so freakin worried about the letter of the law then we have no time to worry about the importance of the spirit of the law. The letter of the law is to not wear form fitted clothing… the spirit of the law is to keep your body modestly dressed. I think we are all old enough to figure the rest out on our own. Stop worrying about what others are wearing and focus on your own spiritual well being.


  18. December 7, 2011 @ 7:07 pm Maquel

    “If your pants are tight enough to see the shape of your leg, your pants are too tight.” ALL womens pants are form fitting from the waist to the knee, so now we have to wear men’s pants to the testing center?


  19. December 7, 2011 @ 7:09 pm Nathan Scoll

    I love that this Dexter character says “I decided after a couple weeks of prayerful consideration and some discussions here in our staff that something had to be done. I put out one sign; I tend to be a little bit rash, but we modified it so that it’s not too harsh.”
    So: Dexter gets a few WEEKS to prayerfully consider the issue and after that still acts RASHLY by putting up that asinine sign, which he takes down or modifies thereafter. So he himself is going to act rashly against his own “prayerful consideration” of a few WEEKS and stand in judgement not only of others but of the veracity of what divine guidance they are receiving. Even worse he is going to define the measurement of discipleship as adherence to arbitrary and non-doctrinal dress and grooming standards. All too typical and sad of Church schooling.


  20. December 7, 2011 @ 7:23 pm Johnny Dozer

    ^ Wow! o.O Here, here!


  21. December 7, 2011 @ 7:40 pm John

    If Jesus literally came to BYU-Idaho we would ask him to leave because he’s breaking all of our rules. It’s really sad but you know it’s true. I recently heard that BYUI didn’t let 30 Christian bikers shower/stay here while they were doing a house-building tour because of their attire. What have we become?


  22. December 7, 2011 @ 7:52 pm MK

    I came to this story from Gawker b/c I wanted to laugh at the comments, thinking that anyone who would choose to attend such a school, where a Test Center has the power to scrutinize women’s bodies up and down to determine who can enter to complete their homework, must be idiots.

    But the student comments are thoughtful and lively. Sorry I rushed to judgment. You uppity mormon college kids sure know how to dish it back at this self-righteous rogue employee.


  23. December 7, 2011 @ 8:16 pm Rachel Vermillion

    Hi I was the girl in the article and the school never apologized to me, I have had several people who work for the school like my professors apologies to me and one even told me that “my pants are about as tight as his pants” this guy who kicked me out was incredible sexist and I hope is getting reprimanded.


  24. December 7, 2011 @ 8:18 pm John

    This is seriously stranger than fiction. I had to check the website more than once to make sure I wasn’t on the Onion. Unbelievable!


  25. December 7, 2011 @ 8:43 pm Any Lewis

    @Rachel Vermillion
    I’m pretty sure you can bring legal charges against this “Dexter” character under the civil rights act of 1964 discrimination. This is the same case of a kid not allow to take an exam because someone said that he had aids. I have a good family friend that could represent you. You should get monetary compensation and a public apology from the university and this individual should not be allow to work at the university any more. This type of people “Dexter” shouldn’t be working with young people. He is the reason why Mormons are attack all the time. Contact me @


  26. December 7, 2011 @ 8:53 pm Scw

    I long for the day when the biggest controversy on campus was girls wearing their backpacks over their shoulder with one strap, tempting those poor boys with their accentuated bosom.


  27. December 7, 2011 @ 9:03 pm David Ball

    Things like this make me realize that turning down my full ride to BYU-I and paying in-state tuition to go to Utah State, is easily worth the money.


  28. December 7, 2011 @ 9:17 pm Brett

    For reasons such as this I am glad that I saw the light and left this institution.


  29. December 7, 2011 @ 9:59 pm JWN

    I don’t understand it.. The article said if it shows the shape of your leg..But every pair of pants show the shape of your leg! The article made me so mad because yeah, they recognized that there were problems with some of the employees, but there was no apology to that girl. Those employees are just on a power trip.


  30. December 7, 2011 @ 10:30 pm Lisa

    Seriously, I agree with the people talking about the letter of the law versus the spirit of the law….but I object to the comments about BYUI being a bad university. Yes this happened, and it’s stupid. But this campus does have some amazing things to offer as well. There should be a change with incidents like this, but that doesn’t mean that all aspects of this establishment are bad.


  31. December 7, 2011 @ 10:47 pm Morgan

    I am just pumped that the scroll website is getting so much publicity! :)


  32. December 7, 2011 @ 11:24 pm Brandon

    How are these people who put up the sign allowed to work on campus in a place like the testing center? The publicity from this will hopefully open up the eyes of people here and maybe all the self righteous holier than thou students, teachers and citizens will think twice before they judge others. I am sad to say that I am embarrassed to say I go here now and I know a lot of other people feel the same way. The self righteous culture here has got to come to an abrupt end before people like Dexter and the Pharisee worker make even bigger fools of themselves and the school.


  33. December 7, 2011 @ 11:26 pm A BYU-I Momma

    ARE YOU KIDDING ME???? First of all, I work at a high school in the South, so the LDS population is slim to nothin’, so you can imagine the dress code there; however, MALE administrators are in no way allowed to address a female’s attire, SO why is this man?? Does he hand out tests or is he secretly living out a life of law enforcement but only as the “fashion police”? As a woman of 44 with a fashionalbe 3-D figure, I long for the day of a pair of skinny jeans! Dexter, shame shame shame on you, unrighteous deminions go to unpleasant places. Say you’re sorry, and get control of your issues sweet pea.


  34. December 7, 2011 @ 11:26 pm Mark Geist

    This story has now gone viral. It is amazing how much damage that one self-righteous jerk can do to the Church. “I’m A Mormon” ads will take a long time to overcome this type of negative publicity and ridicule.


  35. December 8, 2011 @ 12:07 am A. Afterwit

    Who in their right mind puts a note up and tells people to go and pray to be a better disciple!? A cotton headed ninny muggins that’s who! How do they sleep at night knowing that they are some of the biggest pompous self righteous pharisees on this campus? It’s not that they are getting mad about skinny jeans, it’s that people on this campus think they are living a higher law and that they need to bring people to “repentance.” Every semester I am here the self righteousness gets worse and worse


  36. December 8, 2011 @ 12:20 am Jeff

    As a Father who has a Daughter who attends BYUI, this is a JOKE! I have held many leadership callings in the church and am a Temple Recommend holder. This whole fiasco is an embarrassment to the University and to the Church! The young lady had just met with her Bishop, who I am guessing, never counseled her on her attire.
    Who is John Dexter to tell the students to tell the students to go pray about their dress, and then later say that if there answer didn’t agree with him they didn’t ask the right questions?
    Mr Dexter, stick to running the testing center. I am sure that if what a student is wearing does not meet your approval, or of one of your obviously incompetent employees, that there is a process to report them to honors code committee.


  37. December 8, 2011 @ 12:59 am Jessica

    So…I’m confused. When did the BYU-I testing center receive permission from the Prophet (and the Lord) to start dispensing doctrine? It’s one thing to implement a dress code, it’s another thing entirely to treat that institutional policy as a matter of revelation, and anyone who is not adherent as a spiritual leper. Dexter’s comments are offensive (as is the apparently inconsistent and discriminatory enforcement of this policy) and unprofessional. He seems to have forgotten that he works for the university in a paid, professional capacity, not as an ecclesiastical leader.

    Ridiculous, absurd, offensive story.


  38. December 8, 2011 @ 3:33 am BYU I alum

    Dexter will likely find himself evaluating the wisdom he received after a week of prayerful thought in an unemployment line, I just hope his poor family don’t suffer to much for his stupidity.
    Simply put he failed those who he supervised and the administration that relied on him.
    Pres. Hinkley once said that he worried about the overzelous more than he did those enemies of the church in respect to the damage they may do to the reputation of the church.

    Yes, he was talking about you Dexter.


  39. December 8, 2011 @ 3:47 am Selina

    So, I work early morning custodial in the very testing center that is mentioned, and I remember how shocked I was when I saw those signs for the first time. Although, it didn’t really bother me much because I myself don’t wear skinny jeans, but I do have many friends who do. and to be honest, those are the only kind of jeans you can wear with boots. and here in Rexburg(also known as the frozen wasteland) boots are a necessity. I am also shocked that this man feels the need to make others around him more righteous. shame on him!!!


  40. December 8, 2011 @ 4:39 am Paul Kelley

    Hey Mr. Dexter can I give you a call so you can tell me if the answers to my prayers are correct or not??


  41. December 8, 2011 @ 4:52 am Zach

    I agree with Kyle. This is negative attention towards BYUI. If it makes ABC news, it’s a problem. Good luck Dexter.


  42. December 8, 2011 @ 5:11 am Anthony

    I am getting tired of people saying things like “If you don’t like it here leave!” No is saying they hate the school and want to be “rash” (Dexter’s favorite word) and just get up and leave. Many of us love this school, we just VERY strongly dislike the attitudes of some of the students who think they can judge others because they think they are a cut above the rest in the righteous department. Which if you read the scriptures, the Lord has quite a bit to say about what He thinks about those who are self righteous.


  43. December 8, 2011 @ 6:20 am Nathan Grout

    You know what they say… We have learned by sad experience that it is the nature and disposition of almost all testing center employees, as soon as they get a little authority, as they suppose, they will immediately begin to exercise unrighteous dominion.


  44. December 8, 2011 @ 6:35 am Concerned

    Seriously?! What is inappropriate or could possibly arouse someone by showing off the shape of your ankles?! If ankles are your issue, you should consider a different place of work… But on a serious note, if this girl was wearing flares that hugged her hips incredibly tight, this would never be an issue. Dexter, if you can find pants that comply with the dress code (i.e. not wind suit pants or sweat pants) and don’t hug any type of curve a girl has, be my guest to show us all where to find them and try to get those on board. Or perhaps the testing center should have jumpers and a changing room, like the temple? Appropriate? I think not. This whole issue is ridiculous. Hand out tests, not judgements.


  45. December 8, 2011 @ 7:03 am Rich

    The problem is easy to solve: 1) fire every dude in the testing center. 2) Hire only women to work there who self-identify as feminists.


  46. December 8, 2011 @ 8:34 am Jordan Olsen

    I can’t even begin to say how fired up this story gets me. My non-member friends have been reading about this. It hurts our missionary efforts every time some idiot like Dexter decides that he knows best. He is not an ecclesiastical leader, and had no business doing any of this. Dexter has caused a lot of damage, not only to the university, but to the church as well. I don’t know why it took the school a month to get control of the Testing Center, but it took way too long. What about all of the students who were sent away, and as a result lost large portions of their class grades (and there was more than one student sent away)? There are so many levels to the damage that Dexter caused that it is nearly beyond belief. The Scroll then published a shoddy article on the front page attempting to paint the Testing Center as the center of campus righteousness. I’m glad that the university has finally clamped down on the situation (after a month), but I just don’t think they have gone far enough, considering the damage caused.

    @Rachel Vermillion, I’m sorry to hear that. You deserve an official apology from Dexter, and you should also be allowed to point out to the administration the employee who sent you away so that he can personally apologize to you, and then receive his walking papers. You deserved a lot better than what you received.


  47. December 8, 2011 @ 3:00 pm Tori

    Holy cow! I am SOO glad that I don’t go to BYU-I. That school is completely ridiculous. BYU is so much more relaxed about the dress and grooming standards (does BYU-I have people running around w/ mustaches, in shorts, flip flops, etc? does BYU-I have a beard-card even? I don’t think so). Bleh!! For everyone at BYU-I upset by this, please try and transfer to BYU it’s a lot less stressful…and it’s not as cold either (definite plus). Best of Luck! (hopefully BYU-I will calm down about their extreme honor code soon)


  48. December 8, 2011 @ 5:31 pm Disappointed Alum

    I bet Dexter’s kids are full of angst. And his wife as well.


  49. December 8, 2011 @ 5:48 pm Jersey

    I wonder about men like this Dexter guy… seems like he and his other testing center colleagues are pervs trying to suppress something… BYU-Idaho needs to fire this man. How dare he write a self righteous letter like that! Get your act together, BYU-I – you guys really need to wake up.


  50. December 8, 2011 @ 6:14 pm Andy Bell

    @Jordan Olson I actually feel that the article was very well written and didn’t try to paint the Testing Center in a good light. The Scroll’s aim is to provide impartial news articles, like almost all legitimate newspapers try to do. (The exception of course is the Opinion section.) I feel like the author of the article told the story of Rachel Vermillion in an impartial way. When the testing center employees were described with adjectives (like “rude”) it was always done in quotes by Rachel herself. And the author tried to balance the article by telling Rachel’s story, then explaining the signs in the testing center, and then letting John Dexter explain himself. If anything, this actually makes the article lean against the testing center, because I feel that Dexter’s quotes are the most condemning part of the case against the Testing Center because Dexter comes across as self-righteous from his own words.


  51. December 8, 2011 @ 6:43 pm A.B.

    For the people out there saying we need to remember that it is a privilege to attend BYU-Idaho, yes it is. BUT the logic in saying people would jump at the chance to take one of our spots is way wrong. BYU-I has a 97% acceptance rate! No one has to even really try that hard to get in! BYU has a 64.3% and BYU Hawaii has a 61.3%. So getting into the other BYU schools would be more difficult than to BYU-Idaho. Yes it is a privilege to attend any church school for many reasons, But we need to remember that for those reasons like tithes paying for school and the environment we need to respect our fellow students and not judge them. Dexter showed the utmost in disrespect for his fellow men by letting these signs go up and still having signs up that are offensive. I hope that he takes his own advice and prays for ways to be a better disciple.


  52. December 8, 2011 @ 7:05 pm Dan

    Shame on the BYU-I testing center. “It takes years to build a positive reputation and seconds to ruin it.”


  53. December 8, 2011 @ 7:20 pm BYUI Alum

    I know that the school and church needs to stand head and shoulders above the rest of the world, expecially on college campuses – they can be a haven for all kinds of trouble.
    BYUI has attracted several recruiters because of the dress and behavior standards. People seem to want to hire students with standards (at least with the willingness to dress and act in a professional manner)that can represent their businesses/coorperations well. But this has not helped matters at all. Especially with the Church’s efforts to ensure that the public gets a good and correct image published to the population as a whole. The story appears to be all over the country. You just have to google “BYUI Skinny Jeans” and you can read about the finger of scorn being pointed at the church and school. I always understood that a finger of scorn would be pointed from time to time bacause of our high standards, but this has been a complete embarrassment and has not reflected very well on the school or the church. I am sure it will all pass, but it is still very unfortunate.


  54. December 8, 2011 @ 7:36 pm Jordan Olsen

    @Andy Bell I don’t feel that the article cast the Testing Center in the correct light. Several references were made to the idea that the Testing Center was just reminding students of the CES Dress and Grooming Standards. That is not at all correct. The Testing Center placed their own interpretation on the dress policy, and in so doing made up their own standards. This isn’t as innocent as the article in the Scroll makes it sound.


  55. December 8, 2011 @ 8:05 pm Michael Wallace

    The shape of her leg? That’s just horrible. Who wants to know what a leg looks like?


  56. December 8, 2011 @ 9:18 pm Joe Strom

    Sounds like for the girls at BYUI their normal jeans are being called skinny jeans. These girls cannot seem to help if all their jeans are very tight and form fitting because of the “curves”. I think it is an Idaho thing. The testing center is basically calling BYUI coeds fat and should apologize immediately. Fat girls have rights too.


  57. December 8, 2011 @ 11:00 pm byu alum

    Stories like this are exactly why the Church made a huge mistake renaming Ricks Byu-Idaho. For normal people living outside of either Utah or Idaho, no one knows there is a difference between BYU and BYU-I. So when they hear crazy stories like this, they assume it is coming from Provo. Not to mention that when they see little Billy or Suzy get into BYU with average or even terrible grades, they immediately think that BYU is not nearly as good as school as they once thought it was (not realizing that Billy or Suzy actually got into BYU-I). Think it doesn’t happen, I promise this is the reaction all the time out in the real world.


  58. December 9, 2011 @ 2:24 am Student

    @BYU ALUM. Though I do agree that this is all stupid and it’s a shame that BYU-Provo is being dragged into this… I have a big problem with you assuming that the BYU-I students are the ones with average and terrible grades when many of the BYU-Provo students I known only got in because they went on missions or have family members that went to school there… I know they got in for those reasons because it was DEF NOT because of their grades.


  59. December 9, 2011 @ 5:59 am Brandon

    How Do We Become True Disciples of Jesus Christ?

    The Savior Himself provided the answer with this profound declaration: “If ye love me, keep my commandments.” 1 This is the essence of what it means to be a true disciple: those who receive Christ Jesus walk with Him.

    But this may present a problem for some because there are so many “shoulds” and “should nots” that merely keeping track of them can be a challenge. Sometimes, well-meaning amplifications of divine principles—many coming from uninspired sources—complicate matters further, diluting the purity of divine truth with man-made addenda. One person’s good idea—something that may work for him or her—takes root and becomes an expectation. And gradually, eternal principles can get lost within the labyrinth of “good ideas.”

    This was one of the Savior’s criticisms of the religious “experts” of His day, whom He chastised for attending to the hundreds of minor details of the law while neglecting the weightier matters.

    — Dieter F. Uchtdorf October 2009 General Conference


  60. December 9, 2011 @ 4:24 pm Ricks Class of '83

    This is what happens when the institutional mission emphasizes indoctrination over education. When I attended Ricks 30 years ago, it was all about following rules and kowtowing to external moral authority without truly thinking for yourself. I have come to understand that thinking for yourself in our culture is verboten. An article in the Church section of the Deseret News on May 26, 1945, provided a message for home teachers. It said: “(Satan) wins a great victory when he can get members … to do their own thinking. When our leaders speak, the thinking has been done. When they point the way, there is no other which is safe. When they give directions, it should mark the end of controversy. To think otherwise, without immediate repentance, may cost one his faith, may destroy his testimony, and leave him a stranger to the kingdom of God.” Evidently, little has changed. People of independent thought don’t fare well at places like BYU and BYU-I, but zealots and Pharisees thrive. I recall that, in addition to being put on notice that the Lord was watching to be sure we followed all the rules, we were also encouraged to inform on our roommates and friends if we believed they were not following the rules or otherwise living a “Christ-like life.” They called this part of “the Spirit of Ricks.” Other than the name, little has changed.


  61. December 10, 2011 @ 6:48 am John

    First off, @Brandon, that quote from Dieter F. Uchtdorf was perfect. Also, I definitely agree with Jordan Olson that the most condemning part of the whole article was the quote from Dexter and his signs. Bitter irony when the very words you use to try to defend yourself end up making you look like a totally asinine, (thank you Nathan Scoll for that word) religious narcissist.
    @Rachel Vermillion, you really do deserve better treatment than that. Normally I’m one to say, “there are two sides to every story,” but I think I’d rather not hear that employee’s side, because I feel like it would only further infuriate me.
    It bothers me that this has been a means of bad publicity for the Church and school, but beyond that, at an individual level it bothers me that people can treat others like that.
    I really hope that the employee and Mr. Dexter are disciplined. Relief from their jobs is probably warranted, but that’s a terrible thing to wish on people. I would personally be very much relieved to have a public statement from both of them giving apology. A little public humility can go a long way. Beyond that, if they keep their jobs, more power to them. Hopefully they’ll perform their jobs with a broader scope and a fixed attitude from the whole experience.


  62. December 11, 2011 @ 1:54 am Chris

    This is what gives Mormons a bad name.


  63. December 11, 2011 @ 3:20 am Orwell

    Link to picture of Rachel Vermillion wearing the exact outfit that got her kicked out of the testing center:


  64. December 14, 2011 @ 7:37 pm TJC

    I don’t understand all the references to skinny jeans in relation to this incident. The student wasn’t wearing skinny jeans!


  65. January 10, 2012 @ 7:02 pm Gabe

    Who is to say that what I or someone else has received incorrect personal revelation? What makes your prayers and answers more true than mine? Isn’t personal revelation just that? Personal. Who are you to tell me or someone else that I am wrong?

    “If a student prays and they think that the tight ‘formfitting’ clothing is accepted by the Lord, they have not asked, or have not asked the right question, or they have chosen an answer for their own gratification. I don’t believe the Lord would give approval to anyone to be disobedient to the CES Dress and Grooming Standards.”


  66. March 22, 2012 @ 1:50 pm Rebecca Kessell

    On a positive note, this article made me feel really good about myself. Apparently I haven’t gained as much weight as I thought, because I have never been turned away for me way-too-small jeans. (Srsly, a size 4 on a size 9 does not make a tummy look good. Hahaha!)


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